Hello magical friends, and welcome to episode 83 of WZRD Radio! I’m your hostwitch Bess and today my guest is someone that Harry really ought to be talking to. That’s right, I’m talking with the Hogwarts Therapist.
But all good therapy session start with a little music, right?
Here’s “The Black House” by House of Black.
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That was House of Black with “The Black House,” “Oh Hey Neville” by Katie Utke [lyrics], and Ella Martine with “oversized sweater” [lyrics].
“The Black House” was a special request from my brilliant patron Geoff, who dedicates it to a dear friend of theirs who just had a baby. Congratulations!
And now, here’s my conversation with Kathy of Hogwarts Therapist.
Welcome to the show, Kathy. I am so stoked to talk with you today.
Kathy: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.
This was, uh, a fun connection to make. ’cause I’d been saying that I wanted to interview you this year, uh, but I didn’t like know how to make the connection. And then at LeakyCon, I mentioned this to The Weirdos Are Out, who I think just like physically dragged you over to me at one point?
Kathy: Yes. Yes.
Was like “Kathy Bess, Bess Kathy!” Connection made.
Kathy: Yep. That was exactly how that happened. Um, and then I had, I think, been in, I know at all of the wizard rock programming, which as always at LeakyCon is just the absolute best part of the entire convention. I had definitely seen you around and had not connected that you were Bess slash Hostwitch. And so it was, it was a wonderful moment, <laugh>.
Slytherspouse said I should have taken the big purple hat, and I just did not listen.
Kathy: <laugh> Next time.
So you’re in a little bit of a wizard rock hub where you live. Does that have anything to do with how you got into the genre? How did that happen?
Kathy: Oh, that’s so interesting. Um, to think of myself living in a bit of a, in a bit of a hub, um. Well, I honestly found wizard rock way back in the mid-2000s, um, on MySpace with Harry and the Potters, Draco and the Malfoys. And just from there was just absolutely enamored with everything. It was like the golden era of… Just the best time, is what it felt like to be a Harry Potter fan, where that’s also the beginnings of YouTube, the beginnings of so many kind of online fan communities that were so… That were just such a part of my own experience growing up. And I think I was like, you know, 14, 15 and just thought it was the coolest thing. And, um, yeah, found myself just, just diving in, never going to any, any concerts or, or really thinking I would ever be meeting any of these people in person. Uh, I just thought it was a really cool thing. I would, um, buy the songs and I’d burn them onto my CD and play it in my car when I got my, uh, my driver’s license and just introduce all of my friends, regardless of whether or not they were Harry Potter fans or not to just the wonders that was, um, RiddleTM and, and the Moaning Myrtles, and just absolutely in love with it. Um, as, as a little closeted queer kid in Texas.
That is a, a origin story I hear a lot. “I was queer, I was closeted, and then there was wizard rock, and even though it was online, I found a place.”
Kathy: Yeah.
That’s a really nice refrain that I hear over and over again.
Kathy: Yeah.
Now, one of the things that we talked about at LeakyCon was, what do I call you? Like your band? <laugh>
Kathy: <laugh> Yeah.
Because I’ve seen Hogwarts Therapist and I’ve seen Fandom Therapist.
Kathy: Mhm. <affirmative>.
So where do we stand?
Kathy:Um, whenever I initially put out, um… I think the first official wizard rock song that I ever did was a cover of “Jolene” by Dolly Parton slash um, Miley Cyrus. I think I did it more in her key, but I changed it to “Joanne” and I actually performed it at the talent show, at the Granger Leadership Academy in 2020, which was virtual that year and so I was finally able to go and kind of get back into my, like, fandom roots. And that was the first time I had ever actually kind of performed any kind of wizard rock anything. And I, I needed to come up with some kind of like band name and just kind of as a laugh, um, I thought, you know “Hogwarts needs a therapist. I’m a therapist, bam, Hogwarts Therapist.” Right? And, um, on Twitter, I, um, as part of my Twitter handle, I’m on there as “Fandom Therapist” because especially after all of the 2020 JKR everything, um, it no longer really felt great to be just associated with Harry Potter and was also finding myself kind of having a little bit of a replacement of, of the role of Harry Potter, just because I needed to just… I’m sure we’ll talk about that a bit later.
And so, Fandom Therapist… Fandom has always been a really big, um, interest of mine just both being a participant and also just the concept of fandom is just fascinating to me. Uh, so Fandom Therapist felt like a good kind of switch, and I still am not sure what to do in terms of whether that is a band name, whether that is maybe something I actually take on as, you know, if I go off on my own as a private practice therapist in the future. So right now I do have like the Instagram handle Hogwarts Therapist. I have Bandcamp Hogwarts Therapist, and that’s how I’m credited on, um, several different samplers and compilation albums. But yeah, that’s, that’s a little bit up in the air right now. And Hogwarts Therapist is having an identity crisis.
If you end up going “Fandom Therapist” in independent practice, you may have to team up with Janin[a] Scarlet.
Kathy: Oh, yes. Oh, it’s really funny; I actually interviewed her as a, for a, a project in one of my grad school classes. Like we had to find like a psychologist in the field. And, um, and I interviewed her for, for a school project. And so it’s really cool to yeah, to just even hear that. I have some of her books. I have the Harry Potter therapy book, the superhero therapy book. So yeah, maybe one day we’ll team up, we’ll be on some panels together or something. That would be kind of like professional goals right there. <Laugh>
That sounds amazing. I think you should put that in for LeakyCon immediately.
Kathy: Yes.
So you mentioned that you were listening to wizard rock early 2000s.
Kathy: Mhm. <affirmative>.
But you first performed wizard rock in 2020.
Kathy: Yeah.
Were you contemplating dabbling? Like… “No way?” What was that journey? How did that change?
Kathy:Oh my gosh. Um, it’s really interesting because I, uh–interesting to me–um, there was definitely a period of time in the, like, like post, like around 20, uh, 2010, 2011, 2012, where I was, I was gonna be a YouTuber. I was putting out vlogs, I was doing the whole thing. Um, I really wanted to be kind of part of that fandom space because I just saw so much just celebration of, of nerdiness and fandom and of being a little bit weird, and just the community that built up around it. And so I really wanted to be a part of it. Um, have always loved singing, have always loved music, and I actually put out a parody song in like 2011, 2012, whenever the, um, the final Deathly Hallows movie came out. And that’s the only video I still have up, I think, that is, uh, not privated, uh, because I went through and I privated everything because I didn’t wanna get rid of it,
It’s history, and I’m sure I’ll look at it someday and not cringe as hard as I, as I currently do. Um, but it is a parody of, um, “Jar of Hearts” by Christina Perri, which was one of the big songs at the time. And so I have it out there as, um, yeah, there’s, there’s like this parody song set to that and… The production I went into that, I made a whole music video. I set up a green screen. There’s a part where I’m being chased by a dementor. Like, it’s, it’s a lot. Um, and so I did that just as a way to kind of celebrate like the end of, um, end of the, the movies, uh, coming out. And then I didn’t really do as much with fandom for a good, I wasn’t, I wanna say a good four or five years other than, um, just constantly rereading the Harry Potter series as kind of like, kinda like a comfort, a like a touch point almost that I would go back to at least yearly.
And then it was, um, actually whenever I got into graduate school, um, uh, to be a psychologist and started really training to be a therapist. And a lot of the work that we were doing both like, as students and as like preparing to be, to be actual therapists, was really looking at what our values were, what, like, really spoke to us as individuals. And I just felt myself really returning to “okay, you know what, this, this really nerdy, like, enthusiastic part of myself that doesn’t have to go away, and that can be part of my professional identity.” And so that was a really big part of what actually got me through graduate school. I had some kind of awful experiences, um, through that, like five or six years. Um, and it was really wonderful to have myself kind of returning to, um, the Harry Potter like fan community, uh, again, not just as like an online lurker, but now I thought “okay, I can, I can come into this as like an academic, as a researcher and like kind of integrate the, the academic and the, and the fandom.”
And, um, and so I found myself returning to it really that way. Um, at the time I was, I was not gonna write any anything, um, um, any kind of music, any, anything related to that. Um, but I really found myself getting more inspired, um, as I kind of, as I completed my dissertation, and a lot of my research was on the Harry Potter fan community. And just seeing it again, and being part of it again, and recognizing that this fandom never–wasn’t dying. It wasn’t going away. It was actually getting stronger in some ways, um, really inspired some more creativity. Um, and then especially in 2020 when the world shut down and I had a little bit of time to breathe and had more bandwidth to be creative, um, that’s when I returned to “okay, I actually had this really good idea for like a parody song, and so let me do it and perform it.” And then I thought “maybe I could actually, I don’t know, do more of this.” And then I just kind of went for it because I, I definitely needed a creative outlet during that time.
I was trying to remember, but I was pretty sure that your doctoral thesis was on fandom and, and maybe Harry Potter fandom specifically?
Kathy: Yes, it was.
We, I feel like the, the wizard rock community, like sharing a form around for it for interviewees or something.
Kathy: Yeah. Yeah.
So I wanna talk about all that.
Kathy: Oh, I am so happy to talk about that. Um, and as a side note, I’ve actually been invited to speak as a, an invited presenter at, um, I think it’s Chestnut Hill College’s, um, Harry Potter Academic Conference. And it’s really cool to be an invited presenter for, for the work that I did. Um, and so that’s gonna be later this month. So this is just perfect, perfect time for this conversation as I revisit, uh, that work.
And that conference will be virtual so we can all attend.
Kathy: Yes, exactly. So you can hear me talk in the more, like, academic terms about, about my research. Um, but yeah, I, I remember posing to my, um, doctoral advisor pretty early on. I remember approaching her being like “could this, could this actually be like a dissertation? Could I actually, you know, study Harry Potter fandom? Like as part of me graduating and getting my PhD? Like, that’s not possible, right?” And honestly, she was the most supportive. Um, and like, she’s done research and, and has publications on, like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and like comic books. And so I was with the right person to support this kind of research. And there the cat goes again, um, <laugh>. So it was, it was actually really wonderful as I really started to dig into what there was out there about, um, about Harry Potter and academic literature, uh, there, that there was this whole, um, just field of, of fan studies and that I didn’t have to completely reinvent the wheel.
There was enough in terms of, um, like kind of the importance of the Harry Potter series, um, ways that psychologically people had been impacted, uh, different case studies of people using Harry Potter in therapy, like things like that. So I was able to pull from that as well as, um, the other kind of psychological theories that I was, that I was kind of looking at. So things like, um, looking at sense of belonging and sense of community, um, and then bringing in some LGBT, like, developmental models. And, um, as I was putting together my proposal, just realizing “okay, this is, this is something, this, there is like a very real like, reason why this, this study should be done. And, um, I am the perfect person to do it.” And, um, in psychology, a lot of the times there’s this, um, kind of bias towards doing quantitative research, so looking at numbers, looking at cause and effect and trying to like figure out, you know, um, like if certain treatments are effective and, and you know, things like that.
And it’s, there’s a very real, um, like utility in that. And part of the reason I wanted to become a therapist was I just love getting to know what people’s stories are, how people are impacted by their experiences, how they make sense of their experiences, and especially how that shows up in different relationships with each other. Um, and that just seemed like that was the crux of everything for me, was “I wanna hear from people, their experiences with the Harry Potter series and the fandom and how that has been a part of their coming out process, how that has helped them to make sense of their experiences and to just know what, what their experiences were.” Because I had all of this anecdotal knowledge already, like, um, I lived it, so I had this kind of personal, um, like positionality coming in of like “okay, I can’t really separate myself from this research” because like a lot of, a lot of folks try to deny it, but research is me-search.
It’s, we, we have a reason that things are interesting to us. And, um, that was very much where I was coming from. And so that, I have like what’s called a reflexivity statement in my methodology section that kind of talks about bringing in, um, my own perspective and like knowing that that’s likely going to be, um, impacting the way that I perceived, you know, the different, um, like interviews and the different responses I got. But I also had other people kind of like doing different checks and making sure that everything like made sense and I wasn’t just, you know, writing an autobiography or something. Um, and, um, yeah, I just, from there, uh, just started like putting together a list of questions and um, had to get that approved by a committee and like every step of it along the way, I was just like, had this idea in the back of my mind that “okay, someone is going to cut this off at some point.”
Someone’s going to be like “this isn’t real research, what are you doing?” Um, and it ended up being, I think, um, so important that it happened when it happened. And by the time I had all of my like, research, uh, questions and had like, started doing recruitment, um, like I did recruitment at LeakyCon, like things like that, by the time all of that was kind of ready to go and I was ready to actually start like really contacting people and getting, getting the interviews going, uh, that was when, again, the world shut down. It was in spring 2020. And, um, I realized that, okay, I’m going to have to change some things. I’m gonna have to do everything virtually, which I kind of had an idea ’cause people are so spread out, um, that that was going, going to have to happen. But everything had to be virtual.
Um, and people also were stuck in their homes. They were also dealing with kids and pets running around. And, um, and during the time that it took to set everything up, it, I can’t remember exactly when the first interview was, but, um, it was definitely after JK Rowling’s transphobia became just public common mainstream knowledge. Um, again, like it was the whole “she said the quiet part out loud.” And so even from the first interview, the questions I had that had been pre-approved were, um, were not inclusive at all of anything about JK Rowling. It was all about, um, just folks’ experiences and fandom and, um, their experiences as LGBTQ+ identifying folks growing up and like whether they thought that there was any impact on, um, like fandom in their own, um, development as people and, and just more the psychological aspects of things. There was no mention of JK Rowling at all.
But I did have a question at the very end of, um “is there anything else that we didn’t talk about that, uh, you would like us to, to, to talk about or that you would like to be part of this interview, um, that feels important.” And every single person I interviewed, either they brought up JK Rowling in that question, or they had brought it up in multiple places throughout the interview already. And so the, at first I was kicking myself like “oh my gosh, I can’t believe I don’t have this question.” But it just naturally was on everybody’s mind who wanted to be part of the research. Um, and so it was, it was just a really wonderful kind of confluence of events because while I was going through the kind of, that grieving process of what even is fandom gonna look like for me, I was able to hear other people talking about it. Um, and I was able to use that in a meaningful way. And, um, again, that was something that I kind of made note of in my final manuscript, that there were so many extenuating circumstances of the time period, but it’s, it’s a qualitative, uh, dissertation. It’s not meant to be generalizable. It’s not meant to do anything other than capture a certain group of people’s experiences and try to kind of make meaning about that.
I was gonna ask if you had like a thesis statement, but now I’m wondering if that’s not appropriate to the qualitative nature. Is that like a strictly quantitative question? Did you have something you were going into prove or…
Kathy: Yeah, yeah. So the title is “Coming Out of the Cupboard, A Phenomenological Exploration of Fandom and LGBTQ Identity.” They wouldn’t let me have the plus in there. So I had three research questions. The first was, what are the experiences of LGBTQ individuals in the Harry Potter fan community? Two, how might involvement with the Harry Potter fan community have contributed to LGBTQ identity formation? Three, how has belonging to the Harry Potter fan community contributed to the lives of LGBTQ individuals?
And the end conclusions that you drew were…
Kathy: Yeah, so I used, um, what’s called thematic analysis of looking at the, the actual text of the, um, of the interviews, um, of the transcripts as well as I had folks do kind of like a coming out timeline and a fandom timeline to kind of point where different milestones were. Um, and I interviewed 17 people who self-identified as part of the, um, LGBTQ, um, community, and, um, also members of the Harry Potter fandom. And so there were five themes that emerged across all of those interviews. And that was fandom engagement, developing LGBTQ identity, um, navigating marginalization, supporting mental health, and, um, what I called empowered voices. And so kind of that, that fan activism that’s so inherent to the Harry Potter fandom, um, as well as like how people were making sense of JK Rowling. And, um, again, people feeling empowered, like, this is our community, this is our fandom. Um, you can’t take it from us. Like, we’ll take it from here, essentially.
Well, that’s pretty wonderful. If any, uh, WZRD listeners wanna read it, how do they get a copy?
Kathy: So you can definitely search my name and, um, “Coming Out of the Cupboard, a Phenomenological Exploration of Fandom and LGBTQ Identity” and, uh, I wonder if I can give you a link to the, uh, to the open source document <laugh>, so that you could put that in the, uh, description of the, of the podcast. ’cause I don’t expect everyone to know how to spell phenomenological. It’s hard enough to say.
The next music break begins with Jake Eyre Owling and “All Bathrooms Not In Private Domiciles Should Be Open To The Public.”
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That was “All Bathrooms Not In Private Domiciles Should Be Open To The Public” by Jake Eyre Owling, ERWA with “The Lost Buttock” [lyrics], and “Hermione, You’re No Help to Me” by Lumox + Nox.
Here’s more of my conversation with Kathy.
When, uh, my patrons heard that you were the interviewee this month, the, I think the word that grabbed their minds the most was ‘therapist.’ ’cause there is a lot of anxiety and uncertainty about being in the fandom, uh, when the creator of it all is espousing really horrible violence toward, you know, the trans community.
Kathy: Yeah.
And they were hoping that they could get some guidance on, you know, what to do to engage as a fan, you know, healthily or, um, I have no other way to put that. So,
Kathy: Yeah, yeah.
Just, you know, how, how to balance it. What, what are your thoughts as a professional brain person?
Kathy: Yeah, absolutely. And, um, so I’ll put out a disclaimer. Um, I am a licensed psychologist and I am not giving any specific clinical recommendations here. Um, that’s the first time I’ve had to actually put out that disclaimer. So that’s, you know, a little cool moment for me professionally. But, um, any kind of advice or thoughts that I have, um, a lot of it is around my own exploration of some of those themes. Um, and I think I mentioned earlier about the grieving process, um, because I think it is a very real grief. And one of the parts of my dissertation that really resonated with me personally the most, um, was just how important Harry Potter, the Harry Potter fandom and the Harry Potter just materials and story and characters were for so many people going through difficult mental health experiences throughout their lives, and how important it was for them to have this place to, um, to kind of go home to. Hogwarts will always be your home.
And all of these different metaphors for, um, for mental health. Dementors as, um, as in a metaphor for depression. And, um, and just looking at like the metaphor of coming out of the closet and, you know, no kid should be forced to live in, in a cupboard. Like so much of what was celebrated through fandom, um, felt like it was taken away or it was no longer a safe place. And I think for folks who are not so heavily involved in fan communities, um, I think that’s hard to explain just how important that is. And especially for folks who identify as part of the LGBTQIA+ community, to not have that, that space while navigating the very real-world marginalization of not always having the safe space to express their authentic gender identity and sexual orientation and just their authentic selves in general was just a double whammy.
And I know, especially for trans and non-binary folks who were such huge parts of fandom, I witnessed so many people that I followed online for years taking a step back or trying to distance themselves from, from the fandom because they no longer could, it was too painful. It was a constant reminder of what had been lost. And, um, it, it always surprises me when people walk into my office and, um, they see that I have a Harry Potter tattoo, and they immediately feel at ease. Um, and it’s usually folks who aren’t part of the LGBT community. Um, these days, I feel like I have to make a disclaimer anytime someone comments on my, um, on my tattoo. And, um, I have to kind of explain “oh, yeah, I know. And, um, I, I really try to distance myself from JK Rowling.” That has to come with a disclaimer because I really work hard to be a safe environment for folks, um, to be able to explore some of those really traumatic experiences related to their identity and related to their selves.
And so, kind of going back to your initial question of question, what are ways to engage with fandom in kind of, kind of a healthful way, in a way that’s really supportive of their mental health? I think number one is allowing yourself to grieve and not minimizing the impact that that has potentially had, because that was very real, um, for a lot of people, not, not just myself. Um, for, for a lot of people. And there’s a lot that, there’s not really a, um, an instruction manual or there’s not really a lot of books talking about like how to navigate fandom grief. Um, but there’s all, there’s denial, anger, um, everything that’s part of it. Um, so I’m on a panel, um, and I have been a couple of times with Lara from The Weirdos Are Out, and, um, this panel is called, um “Separating the Art from the Artist.”
And it’s, it’s really about kind of what the process looks like to continue to engage in fandom and separate the, the artist, the harmful person involved. Um, and sometimes the final step of that is not being able to separate the art from the artist, and that’s a perfectly valid stance as well. Um, something I’ve noticed in the wizard rock community in particular is that there is so much movement away from.. It, it feels to me moving away from being affiliated with the Harry Potter series. And it’s so much more towards the fandom, which is such an interesting, and just for me anyway, just joyous and kind of radical act. Um, and that’s what I think keeps me involved in the, in the community myself.
I personally would love to know more about what you mean about that moving away from canon to the fandom.
Kathy: Yeah, so I love fanon, so, uh, the different kind of head canons and, um, kind of fan-centric celebration of, um, of characters and themes and, um, and I think like Bisexual Harry is a really great example of that, of just like being absolutely, um, just wonderful and, uh, <laugh> and in, I am, I’ve, I’ve really enjoyed getting to know, getting to know them more, um, over the past couple of years. Um, but just being so much more focused on the fandom itself as a community and then making music for that community rather than just using the source material, um, for the sake of interacting with the source material. Um, but yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know, I don’t think that answered your question, but, um, I think that it’s just so, that’s that’s hard to, hard to pin down.
Also, sitting, uh, here and talking with you, I realize the irony of once, you know, JKR went full TERF, all of my Harry Potter things are now in what I call “the closet of shame” where I do my recording.
Kathy: Oof. Yeah. <laugh>
So shame, uh, being a big feeling that comes with loving, uh, a fandom, the, the book series, the movies so deeply, but that not being something you can easily share with the world anymore. How, how do people manage that?
Kathy: Yeah, I’ve, I’ve seen a lot of that because I don’t think that anybody, like, I don’t think there’s a should or a right way to engage with, um, with fandom after something like this, because like, it’s, it’s not as cut and dry as “oh, you’re just no longer a fan.” Because especially given what happened with so many people who grew up with the Harry Potter series and are part of the quote-unquote Harry Potter generation that is so woven into our memories, our, um, our understandings of ourselves, and they’re just very, it’s very formative. It’s, it’s, it’s part of us. And so it’s a very personal decision, I think, for folks to have to make and, are you going to be cutting it out of your life? Are you going to be, um, continuing to engage with it, but in a more maybe like critical way? Um, I really don’t like what often happens online where everything becomes so black and white, um, in terms of, okay “JK Rowling’s a TERF, so okay, you have to completely cut that out or else you are also a TERF. You are also, um, supporting her beliefs.” Which that’s too big of a leap. That’s, it’s, it’s not that simple. We can be critical consumers of media and still enjoy the media because it’s not going to be perfect.
And I have definitely seen some, um, some folks and people who I’m really no longer friends with who really kind of, um, have that, that mindset and it’s made it very difficult to be able to even engage with them because it feels like “oh, if I don’t do the right thing in your eyes, then I’m a bad person.” And, um, we’re, we’re all people trying to make sense of, just make sense of, of the world we’re in, the experiences we have and what we consume in terms of media to try to make sense of it. Um, it’s all really complicated. So in terms of that shame piece, um, I know I mentioned earlier like having to make a bit of a disclaimer whenever like I am working with folks who are trans, who are part of the, um, LGB community in general. And that’s not to say that I have like LGBTQ+ clients who are completely anti-Harry Potter, like so many of them have been able to speak to having a complicated relationship with the series as well. And, um, that’s honestly a way to really be able to talk through some of the more complicated parts of life.
So obviously this has been a lot of, you know, dealing with the, the hard parts of being in a fandom where the creator is, uh, behaving badly, which I think is something that’s fairly unique to the Harry Potter fandom right now. ’cause a lot of fandoms have creators who have done bad things, but those creators have been dead 30, 50, 200 years.
Kathy: Yeah.
Which makes it a little bit easier.
Kathy: Yeah.
How can Harry Potter fans, wizard rock fans protect/preserve the joy?
Kathy: Hmm. I love that question. I think celebrating in each other, kind of what we’ve spoken to already, um, on like the wizard rock community being just such supporters of just each other and of fandom and of creating, creating things for each other. I think still being able to allow yourself those moments of like continuing to read or write Harry Potter fan fiction and revisiting watching the films or reading the books in, in the future, as- in, in a very kinda personal, meaningful way. And like I said earlier, I used to reread the books at least once a year. That wasn’t even an exaggeration. It would sometimes be more than once a year, because it was something that I found something different every time I read it. And it was often something different about myself and how differently I responded to different, um, different parts of the story as kind of I grew up and I had a different understanding of the world and I haven’t been able to read them since 2020. And in fact, I had a hard time coping with the fact that I couldn’t escape into the Harry Potter series during the, you know, shitshow that was 2020.
So yeah, I still have not returned to them, and I think I will, one day. I’m not going to purchase new books. And I was someone who had, you know, purchased the hardback versions. Um, I had some paperback versions, versions from different countries. I had the audiobooks, the, um, the Kindle, like eBooks. Like I have I have so many ways that I can go back to that if I ever choose to without continuing to provide monetary support to the author. It’s, it’s definitely felt almost weird for me to sometimes still have thoughts about parody songs or to have like an idea for a song. And it’s about specific characters. It’s about a specific moment in the series, and it feels, sometimes I feel maybe it’s that, like that prickling of shame of “should I be, should I still be wanting to create from this?” So I, I think that’s, it’s just such an important conversation to keep having to kind of normalize that that’s a part of it. And also there’s, there’s not something wrong with wanting to still experience joy from something that has brought so much joy, in my opinion, as a human, not even as a clinical person. <Laugh>
Clinical person.
Kathy: Clinical person.
So it feels like pretty much all I’ve done this interview is ask you for your advice,
Kathy: <laugh>
So I see no reason to stop now. What advice do you have for newcomers who want to try their hand at making wizard rock?
Kathy: I doubt I’ll be the first person to say this, but just do it. Just do it and don’t be beating yourself up too much about it being perfect. Um, I would say don’t beat yourself up at all, but that’s unrealistic. Uh, <laugh> just, it’s such a fun and welcoming community and in my experience, folks have loved what I’ve contributed regardless of if there were a couple of like off notes or if, you know, I, I left in like, oh, a weird breath or something. Like, it was actually wild to me to go to LeakyCon and, um, and LeakyCon Denver, I actually performed at the Wizard Rock Cafe because again, I’m a, you know, we’re in a, a hub of wizard rock here apparently. And to actually have people come up to me and be like “I’m so glad you sang, um, No Dark Mark No Crime, that’s my favorite of yours.” And me be like “wait, people have listened to what I’ve to what I’ve made? I just made that for me.” And then like “oh, people listened to it. Oh, okay, cool. <laugh>.” Like, I think that’s, that’s still something I’m so not used to and probably one of the reasons that I haven’t actually put on an album because it feels like this weird self-serving thing. But I absolutely at some point should at the very least compile everything I’ve put on different compilations and have it all be in one place. <laugh>
My listeners will know, I also like to get concrete advice, like–
Kathy: Okay
–the best–
Kathy: Ooh, yes,
–guitar pick for beginners, or that one button in your editing software that you didn’t know you needed, but it’s wonderful.
Kathy: Mm. I would say even if you don’t know how to play an instrument, you can still do wizard rock, because I do not know how to play an instrument <laugh>. And, um, I’ve just gotten really good at learning GarageBand and even your keyboard, your like literal typing keyboard, not a piano keyboard, just a typing keyboard in GarageBand or whatever music software, um, you have access to, you can actually like play piano notes on your actual keyboard if you just figure out which ones go where. And I would say just experiment with that, experiment with the sounds and the digital world of like realistic-sounding instruments, because I’ve kind of been able to do some, um, little demos of like “oh, I, this like, chord progression sounds cool, and I’ve just kind of figured that out.” And then I’ve gone back through and I’ve been able to change, like, maybe I want it to sound like an electric guitar, maybe I want it to sound like a bass.
Uh, maybe I want it to sound like, uh, it’s in a concert venue or, or something. And I just, I’ve had a lot of fun and then I’ve gotten very like, hyperfixated on finding the exact right sound. But that has been kind of part of my process that I just, I think that if you find your niche of where you can get kind of more obsessive <laugh>, for lack of a better word, um, go down the YouTube rabbit holes, look at what tutorials are online, that has been the best way for me to kind of piecemeal things together in a way that actually made a song. Um, and also invest in a decent microphone. It doesn’t have to be high quality, but one that’s not gonna just like, you know, peak out if you hit a high note has been really important.
So what does a decent microphone look like?
Kathy: I would say something around like the $30 range. Um, just looking on Amazon, looking up different reviews. Something that you can actually–like a USB microphone to plug into your computer if possible. For me, that’s been really helpful and I haven’t needed anything on the, the higher end, um, for just starting out. You definitely don’t need anything more than between like 30, $40 I don’t think.
I have never opened GarageBand. I’ve never seen, I think it’s an Apple product?
Kathy: Yes.
If I were to open it for the first time, what’s like the first thing?
Kathy: Mm. So typically if you open it for the first time, it asks you to start a, start a project and it’ll ask you if it’s gonna be audio or if it’s, um, if you’re using instruments. And I would say start with audio. And what you can do is it’ll show you, it’ll have an audio track. If you click the red record button, you can literally start talking, start singing, and from there you can, um, start like layering different tracks. And I think the only song that’s even on my BandCamp, uh, that’s “Start Again” completely acapella. It’s just, just my voice and layered on top of each other. So even, even just starting there, even maybe putting like little snaps in the background as like a beat. You don’t need anything more than that.
That is perfect. Thank you very much. I’m sure that someone out there is opening it for the first time now. You sort of preempted this question a couple minutes ago. Um, what are you working on now? Will there be a Hogwarts Therapist album?
Kathy: I think there, there inevitably will be there. There is are, there are enough songs that I have put out on various compilation albums. I think from 2020 through 2022 at least I didn’t get one in for 2023 because of life. I also did a sea shanty compilation, um, and I think, oh, I was also on the Trans Wrock Compilation album as well. And I do need to have just a home for all of these. I was also part of the, uh, Wrock Compilation Club and I don’t think I’ve ever actually just released that song just out to the world. So maybe that’ll be kind of the, um, the exclusive release of that for folks who weren’t part of that, that compilation club. And I have a couple parody songs that I have the lyrics written for. I have, um, I have my kind of demo like voice tracks and I will definitely, um, be putting those out at some point because right now they’re just kinda living in my brain and half on the computer and they’re not, they’re not really anywhere else yet.
So we can look forward to some new music as well as, uh.
Kathy: Mhm. <affirmative>
a gathering of your creations over the years. Your, uh, Wizard Rock Resource page? Very impressive.
Kathy: <laugh>. Thank you. I don’t even know what all is on there. Um, like I said, I tend to put things out into the universe and then forget that I’ve done them and then forget people can actually, uh, go listen to them. So, um, it’s always just, just the wildest thing to realize how much of that I have I have been able to create and how my little nerdy 13 year old self would just die, just would not even be able to understand in her little fandom brain just how cool this has been to get to be a part of.
Our final music break has arrived, and it begins with “One More” by Gadding With Ghouls.
~*~
You just heard “One More” by Gadding With Ghouls [lyrics], Defense Against the Dark Marks and “Hagrid’s Hut (and other tales),” and “Romance at the Quidditch World Cup” by Totally Knuts [lyrics].
This is the last bit of my conversation with Kathy of Hogwarts Therapist.
Thank you so much for talking with me today. This has been amazing. Where can WZRD listeners find you online?
Kathy: You can find me, um, at HogwartsTherapist.BandCamp.com. I think I only have one song on there right now, but that is going to be where I put out any new music. Um, I do also have an Instagram that is, um, Hogwarts_Therapist and any announcements, uh, I will make there. It’s not a very active page, but there will definitely be an announcement whenever this episode comes out over there. Uh, and then just on, on Twitter, I am, um, at Fandom_Psych, so F-A-N-D-O-M-P-S-Y-C-H. I had to remember how to spell psych. So that tells you how well I’ve been doing today.
If you heard a song today and you thought “I could listen to that again” then go to the transcript at WZRDRadioPod.com, follow the link and buy a copy of your very own. It’s the best way to support your favorite musician, and without our wizard rockers, we wouldn’t be here.
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If you want to keep up with WZRD between episodes, you can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at WZRDRadioPod. If you don’t believe in social media, you can also comment on the transcript or email me at WZRDRadioPod@gmail.com.
And now, here’s Hogwarts Therapist!
Kathy: “So now, uh, we’re gonna play “No Dark Mark, No Crime” which is my Taylor Swift parody of, uh, “No Body, No Crime” which focuses on, uh, Harry’s just very paranoid, ah, suspicion of Draco Malfoy during, um, Half-Blood Prince, that something’s going on. And I completely wrote it just because it came into my brain and I thought “someone’s gonna write this. I have to write this.” It just seemed so completely obvious to me. But it was absolutely a blast to, to write and I…I don’t know. I still get a kick out of, out of the lyrics I got to put together for that one, so. I hope you enjoy!
WZRD Radio Podcast 