Hello magical friends, and welcome to episode 144 of WZRD Radio, with an extra big hello and thank you to my wonderful patrons, who make these interview episodes possible!
I’m your hostwitch Bess and today we’re chatting with the absolute legend behind Your Wizard Rock Resource. But did you know she’s a wizard rocker as well?
We’re going to talk about that today, as soon as we finish with this first set of songs. Here’s “Party Spells” by The SlytherPuffs.
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That was The SlytherPuffs and “Party Spells,” “SM ar har igen” from the Swedish Shortsnouts, and His Silver Hand singing “Not a Hero.”
And now let’s chat with Susannah of Self-Defensive Spellwork!
Welcome to the show Susannah of Self-Defensive Spellwork. It is awesome to be talking to you again.
Susannah: Hey!
Last time I think we did a patron-exclusive interview all about your work as the preeminent archivist for wizard rock at Your Wizard Rock Resource.
Susannah: Oh yeah.
But today we’re gonna go over uh, your work as one of the preeminent creators of wizard rock that needs archiving as a wizard rocker. How did that start?
Susannah: I started out with wizard rock many years ago, <laugh> when, uh, shortly after I got into Harry Potter I was wanting to borrow the movies from the library after I’d borrowed the books and I was like–as I was waiting to get the movies, I was looking up clips on YouTube ’cause I hadn’t seen the movies yet. I didn’t know what made it into the movies and what didn’t. So sometimes I would search for clips that didn’t exist, sadly, but it would pop up with wizard rock songs. The first song I came across was called, “What Kind of Name is Hermione” by the Parselmouths, which is a very strange song to have as your first song. I was like, “what in the world is this?” But it was very funny. And from there there were other ones that were recommended; Moaning Myrtles, which is also quite interesting to come across very early on, Oliver Boyd and the Remembralls, which I immediately fell in love with, RiddleTM… I did come across “Save Ginny Weasley” and I was a bit underwhelmed <laugh>,
I’m not sure you’re allowed to say that.
Susannah: <laugh>. I definitely love Harry and the Potters now, but. Because I believed all the people who were like “they’re better live” and I gave them more of a chance and I listened to more of the albums, I was like “Whoa, they, they are Harry Potter.” So the wizard rock side itself, I think I toyed with the idea of making ah wizard rock by myself for quite a while, but it was something that always felt a bit out of reach, living so far away and not really knowing anything about how to record music. Like I could play a few different instruments but I was like, “recording is gotta be another beast that I don’t have as much interest in.” I looked it up, I had to look it up. My first um, songs I did was in 2019, so I think this was around when Grace Kendall was doing the uh, Witch Rock or um, Wix Rock uh, Twitter and they was so encouraging about getting new people to do wizard rock for the Samplers and I was like, “Hey, I’m gonna give it a go.”
“I have had this song that I have written for ages and it just needs like a good melody and it’s a bit of backing and maybe I can make it work.” So I did “Graveyard of Buried Hopes” for that, which was interesting <laugh> to record because I just did it as like… Um, there’s this few, this free program called MuseScore that I made all the backing track in. So it sounds very MIDI Instruments, but it was fun to make. Lemme think. Oh I did one earlier that year called “Far From Home,” which is around, but, and that one I also did in MuseScore. So it was just a fun thing to get uh, put my lyrics to music because I’ve always been a writer. So turning these lyrics that I’d already been writing like poems into music, I was like, “this is quite nice to kind of dip my toes in and see that it’s not actually too difficult after all.” <laugh>
I noticed that your um, early songs were I think a little bit on the like melancholic side “Far From Home,” “Graveyard of Buried Hopes,” “Darling Girl.” Was that like deliberate? Were you in like a transition period?
Susannah: I think it just ended up being, what, not not necessarily deliberate, but it was what I gravitated to. Like even in my writing it tends to be a little more like focused on emotions and like in a journey and that, I found that just kind of let myself to stronger emotions in that way. Um, I think I was particularly inspired by the kind of music that I like to listen to, uh, in in wizard rock, which is like heavy on stuff like Split Seven Ways <laugh>, which is the most melancholy band in wizard rock. Um, Grace Kendall of course as well. There’s really angsty songs. I’m like, “they just get me” <laugh> but not particularly intentional.
That makes the Parselmouths being your first song particularly funny.
Susannah: Yes.
So, Self-Defensive Spellwork.
Susannah: Hmm.
How did that happen as your band name?
Susannah: Well, with Your Wizard Rock Resource, I did have a list of bands that I knew I had taken all these names and I was like… Mm, I’m not, do I even remember how I came across this <laugh>? I think I was looking up books and different spells and lots of different things that are in the wizarding world. ’cause I think my mindset was I wanted to use a concept or a thing or whatever that’s already present. Like I didn’t want to turn people into a band in case I was like, “nah, that’s gonna pigeonhole me” or something that’s too reminiscent of a particular sound or topic. So I was like, “hmm.” Self-defensive Spellwork is is it turned out one of the books that Dumbledore’s Army, they find in the Room of Requirement and I think I really liked that aspect that it’s pretty, it’s some, it’s something that’s just mentioned once. So it’s pretty easy to just use that and launch off it as I think I could get anywhere. I like with this and it’s related to the wizarding world but it’s not come with any particular expectations.
Were you tempted by any other concepts or books?
Susannah: I don’t think so. I think I was signing up for BandCamp but I needed a band name and I was like, “okay, I’ll go with this. And I don’t think I’ll be likely to change it because uh, I think it’s pretty good” <laugh>. Um, and my name starts with S so that fits. I was like “easy for me to remember. It might help other people remember even if it’s a bit of a mouthful.” <laugh>
Was it fun making your own page on the Resource?
Susannah: It was, it helped me in uh, editing the Resource as well because I would try out some different layouts and stuff and I was like, “okay, I’ll start with my page <laugh> and see how it looks before I start putting it on other pages.” So that’s what I did when I transitioned to the new layout. I was like testing it out on my own songs first before I spread it across <laugh>.
That’s very academic of you. I see why you ended up in a school system in your muggle life.
Susannah: Yes,
<laugh> very logical.
Susannah: Yes. I’m a, yeah, school librarian. So the stuff that I’ve done through Your Wizard Rock Resource has really lent itself to that career choice, which is funny because I chose the career way after I started Your Wizard Rock Resource. I think it kind of helped me along it actually.
That’s really cool. I wanna keep asking about the Resource, but I know we’ve had that conversation, I have to focus on the music this time. So you mentioned that you wrote poems, you knew how to play a few instruments, which is already a huge sounding number. What did the, the songwriting process look like? How do you put them together? How do you figure out what you wanna do?
Susannah: Ooh, okay. Generally when I am writing songs, it goes a little bit like when I write stories. Like I start with a basic idea that I want to get across and I think of how I can translate it into words into a story arc. But the topic always comes first. Like the lyrics, like I’m really focused on what the lyrics have to say. So that’s, that’s the part that feels most perfected to me when I’m writing and the instruments and the recording process, I’m always like, “oh, if I had better skills I could get that down a little more across the way it seems like it should in my head,” but that’s okay. <laugh> like, got the important parts. So for example, with “Darling Girl,” I wanted to write a song with the idea that Hermione modified her parents’ memories but like with their consent, like she asked, like she told them about it.
And also I really liked the idea of exploring a muggle point of view. That’s also not quite as rose colored as other songs that are like, “I wanna be a wizard!” But it’s “like what do the people think? Who are the ones who are left behind like the parents and they see their kids getting further and further integrated into this world that they can’t quite be a part of.” There’s a really lovely song by the band Muggleborn that’s called, I think it’s a called “Muggleborn <laugh> The Grass Ain’t Always Greener” and it’s this really melancholy perspective of being a muggleborn but transitioning to the wizarding world and feeling that really a big sense of detachment and loss from the muggle world and the life that they used to have but can’t have anymore. And so that was something that I found really profound and I was like, you don’t see a lot of Herman’s parents but it makes sense.
It’s not quite her story, it’s about Harry and it’s about the wizarding world and it’s not as interesting to read about what we already know. But I was like, yeah, I really wanted to get across that idea of like, she’s kind of separated from us and we love her but also it’s something that we can’t quite be a part of. So yeah, I start with a strong idea like that and I’m like how can I turn this into something which will make people go, “oh,” or make them think or have a new idea about something. More cheerfully, for “My Joy,” that one was prompted of course by the Summer of Fun. So I was like, “I need to write a happy song for once. Haven’t I not written one before <laugh>?” And I ended up back at Hermione. It’s become a bit of a passion, not really deliberately, but I think she’s quite relatable, <laugh> and yeah, especially in the topic that I chose to write about again, about her trying to find her place but discovering that applying the same ethos that she would’ve applied before she came to Hogwarts still doesn’t really help her make friends.
And then yeah, the topic of what brought her joy before and how can we share that character development along the way because it is really interesting to see how she changes in those first few months in that first book. And then you see her stick up for Harry and Ron you’re like, “oh she’s really cool actually.” Like “she’s not so annoying. She could be a good friend.” And then if that line at the end of that chapter “there are some things you can’t go through without becoming friends.” I always thought that was so sweet. So I tried to integrate that and it was very fun song to write and I got to use my ukulele, which I hadn’t used before because it feels like too happy an instrument. So I was like, “oh I can actually use this. I’ve had this for so many years and I have not recorded with it before <laugh>.”
So which instruments do you play?
Susannah: Well I took music lessons when I was younger and I learned piano still kind of rusty on the theory, but I can play the piano. Um, I have an acoustic guitar that I use for “Darling Girl” and ukulele that I used for, I think for the two most recent ones. And I also have a, I think, yeah I have an alto recorder, so it’s got a list, a high-pitch squeaky sound <laugh> than the typical recorder might think of, which is really interesting and a little bit gloomy sounding, which maybe one day I’ll put it in a song as well if I can figure out how to do it.
That would be very fun. I was talking with Irvin of the Three Broomsticks podcast a little bit ago and how we both sort of assumed that with the volume of wizard rock bands there’ve been throughout the years that every subject would’ve been covered to death. But there are still chapters that have shockingly little music about them. What uh, subjects or or chapters do you think we need more music about?
Susannah: Ooh, I love this question <laugh>. So I know there’s definitely some chapters and books even that have way more songs about them. Like the last two books have heaps and heaps of songs. I have a real soft spot for the third book. I always think it needs more songs. <laugh>, there’s this hilarious song for Harry’s anti-dementor lessons that uh, my sister and I still quote to each other to this day. Um, “Expecto Patronum” by Remus and The Lupins, it’s so funny. Not quite as heart wrenching and emotional as the original chapter <laugh>. And then also Percy and the Prefects did “Houses Me,” which touches on that topic a little. But I really liked the… Reading those chapters in that book about Harry learning more about himself, about his parents and getting closer to Lupin and, and really just, we learned so much about Harry’s inner journey in that book.
And I think, I hope it doesn’t sound silly to say I just want more songs about Harry but <laugh> Yeah, I do. I really, really love that book and I think there’s a lot of underrated scenes in it, like the Christmas that they just spend at Hogwarts. Like there’s a song about that and like when I first heard it I was like “whoa, that is such a good topic for a song.” Even though not a whole lot happens, like thirteen of them dining and they’re just having a quiet Christmas at Hogwarts and this would not really fit with the Hermione theme of my songs. But I also want more songs about the other quidditch scenes that didn’t make into the movies. Like there’s the very funny Gryffindor/Ravenclaw match in the third book where Harry cast his first patronus at Draco Malfoy and the others who are dressed up as dementors on the pitch, he just cast it and then he is off, he’s, he’s back to Quidditch <laugh>.
It’s a very funny scene but also he cast his first patronus, that’s really cool. And it’s like the movies that really only had like one quidditch scene per movie, which is understandable. But reading the books, I always found those scenes a blast. Like the one in the sixth book where he gets clonked on the head by McLaggan <laugh> and he ends up at the hospital wing with Ron or the bit after the one in the fifth year. Yeah. Where he gets banned. That was pretty tragic. But also, yeah, I do think more songs about scenes in that third book, the… Not necessarily connecting to later on but just taking them for what they are than like Harry being a 13-year-old learning more about his parents, himself, who he wants to be. That would be really cool. <laugh>
As a Lupin fan, I’m all for this.
Susannah: Yes. Love Lupin.
I’m a sucker for a sad boy.
Susannah: <laugh>
Here’s our next block of music, and Nagini is all cued up with “Petunia.”
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That was “Petunia” by Nagini, Harry & the Potters with “Follow the Spiders,” and “Ginny’s Song” from Seven Potters [lyrics].
Let’s get back to Self-Defensive Spellwork!
Okay so we do a lot of collabs in wizard rock. I noticed that you uh, in your discography have a lot of, you know, covers and like wrock swaps. If you were gonna write a duet with another textbook, you know, Thousand and One Magical Herbs and Fungi or something, which one do you think would make a good musical partner?
Susannah: Hmm. So I did have to think about this one because I was like, “I’m a text? Oh yeah, true” <laugh>. So I did look at what books are in the books and yeah because it’s sort of the books that’s in the room of requirement. I think any book that encourages you to try out spells and magic and get your hands dirty would be great. Not necessarily one of the prescribed textbooks, can be a little out there. I was thinking of Most Potente Potions that Hermione uses for the polyjuice recipe. And there’s also the books that Sirius and Lupin get Harry for Christmas. There’s, it’s called Practical Defensive Magic and its Use Against the Dark Arts, which is a whole mouthful but I feel like it really captures the same spirit.
And there’s a couple other books that just have some funny titles that I forgot about and I was like reading this list and I thought such good titles like they’re always some silly jokes along the way as you’re reading. Like Saucy Tricks for Tricky Sorts that’s just rolls off the tongue and there’s a long one. Beautiful. Powers You Never Knew You Had and What to do With Them Now You’ve Wised Up <laugh>. That was a great one. There’s a funny, there’s actually a few other wrock bands named after books, which I didn’t really clock until I started thinking about this. There’s Hogwarts, A History of course and Gadding with Ghouls, so those would also be interesting collabs. And there’s one which would be a terrible, terrible collab, which is the book that Umbridge chose for fifth year, which is called Defensive Magical Theory and was all about ‘just read the book and don’t actually do any magic.’ I’m like, “no, you gotta do magic, you gotta get your hands dirty.”
The um, Saucy Tricks for Tricky Sorts sounds like it would be good for like Parselmouths “What Kind of Name,” comedy, fun, rollicking music.
Susannah: It would be, that would be a great contrast.
I like the practical defense one. That seems, like you said, like exactly you know, of a kind with Self-Defensive Spellwork.
Susannah: Mm-hmm
So earlier you mentioned a program that I don’t think has been mentioned on here before: MuseScore?
Susannah: Oh yeah.
Which I’m very excited to learn more about in this next question, which is all about your advice for new wizard rockers.
Susannah: Ooh, I did not write anything down for this question because I didn’t know what to say. <laugh> Advice for new wizard rockers… So we’re thinkin’ practical advice? Is that the bent that we’re going for?
Uh, my favorite is like the really simple seeming baby steps. Like people have given, you know, the only chords you need to write a song. Or um, you know, the nebulizer for keeping your vocal chords, chords moisturized, you know, just something that seems obvious once you’ve been doing it for a while but you don’t know that you don’t know when you’re just starting out.
Susannah: Hmm, okay.
It’s hard to say <laugh> I think. Oh my recording process is I write the song completely play it well yeah, with the one that haven’t done musical score, which is all the later ones. I play it on the instrument as I, and I rehearse it and then I end up recording the instrument and then I record the singing on top of that. And it’s a long kind of process because I try to get the instruments like as nice sounding as I can. And then even now I just listened to some of the recent, I was like, “eh, it could have been a bit nicer but I won’t be perfectionist about it. I won’t.” And so yep, I start with the instruments. I do that in Audacity and there’s a lot of chopping up that happens. Like I play it full through and then I’m like, “okay, I messed up in this tiny bit through the rest is all right so I’ll chop off that tiny bit and do it again and then the rest is fine.”
And then as I start recording the singing over it, that usually takes a little while. Like I start off and I’m like, “okay, it sounds all right.” And then by the time I finished I’m like, “oh I actually, my voice wasn’t warmed up and I was singing like a lot quiet than I thought it was, so let’s go over it.” And then usually that’s when it starts to be a lot more like the vision that I had in my head. So I would say a bit of advice is don’t expect it to come out right the first try. Like, give yourself a bit of time to get used to like your recording conditions, get your hands warmed up if you’re play– playing instrument. Get your voice warmed up if you’re gonna sing… And let yourself have a little bit of fun with it. Because there were also some things that popped up as I was recording that I ended up putting in the song even though I didn’t really think of it beforehand, like little bits of harmonies here and there were like, oh I can like, I can vary the melody in this bit where it’s, I didn’t really think of it as I was writing so I think that last 5% of the song coming in right as I’m recording is quite fun.
So I think another bit is yeah, just let yourself be open to a little bit of change along the way.
So how do you warm up your hands and your voice? Do you have any favorites or preferences?
Susannah: Uh, not really <laugh>, I haven’t taken music lessons in a long time. For the string instruments, I just keep my fingernails short. I practice beforehand, um, not just like the day before but like as I’ve been writing this song I was probably rehearsing and getting my fingers like used to playing this song and then on the day it’s just practicing a lot and then hitting record and trying not to get to fall into that trap of, “I played it perfectly but I wasn’t recording” and being a bit scared to record because “oh now it’s not gonna be perfect ’cause I hit record” and it’s like, no, you can just try recording and see how it goes. Like letting go of that fear even that comes with trying to get everything perfect ’cause you know it’s being recorded. Um, a lot of practice. And vocal warm ups, I dunno, I, I did not have vocal lessons. I can match notes as I sing and that’s about it. That one is just again, just make sure that I have practiced enough that I have the confidence in my voice to be singing at the proper volume that I want. Which yeah, living with other people you always feel a bit nervous about it but you just have to let go of it. <laugh>.
And what is MuseScore? Do you still use it? Do you recommend it?
Susannah: It’s a free music software. Okay, so I mainly got it because it can play from sheet music and then in the sheet music you can assign different parts to different instruments and then you can press play and it will play the song. So that’s what you can hear on “Graveyard of Broken Hopes.” I think I put in a piano, I put in a violin, which doesn’t sound super violin <laugh> because it’s because of what the program is and there’s some bells I think. Um, so yeah you have to know sheet music and then you can write out the notes. I figured it out on my like real life piano keyboard and tinkered around in MuseScore a lot to figure out the harmonies. Yeah. But it’s a free program. If you know a little bit about writing sheet music, a little bit about music theory then it’s quite fun to use. Yeah, so once I did that, there must have been a button to export it to an audio file or something so I pulled that into Audacity and then sang over the top of that.
But these days you just play your own instruments or?
Susannah: Yeah, I haven’t done MuseScore for a little while but… Yeah, I found it less useful for stuff that I’m strumming like guitar or ukulele so that I just tend to pull out the extra instrument and like noodle along and see what I come up with. But it was quite good for yeah, playing keyboard and playing something over and over again and seeing, okay, what can I sing along with this or how does it fit into the melody?
Well now that we know uh, your process, what are you using it on? Is there anything we should be looking forward to?
Susannah: I don’t have anything in the works right this instant. I have a few ideas kind of rolling around in my head and there’s a few compilation album calls out right now, but I’m like, yeah I could get something going for that. Like the Galleon Guy has one about home that I’m like, I feel like he’s really hoping I write something for, being from Australia. And of course there’s the Wrock Sampler, which I’ve done a few times, don’t remember the last time I did it, but it would be nice to be back and do it. That one is really fun because it’s really no stakes. Everyone’s just jumping in and doing whatever, no prompt, just go with what you like and then it ends up with such a variety of topics and ideas and you are like, “whoa, other people are so much more creative” and it’s like “hold up. You just don’t think that because you’ve been thinking about this idea the whole time but other people think you’re really cool too.” <laugh>
So you’re saying everyone should do the Sampler?
Susannah: Oh yes please. <laugh>. There’s always people like “I don’t know how to get started recording” and it’s like number one, there’s other people here who’ll help you. Number two, you gotta just get your feet wet I think. Yeah, I still feel like I haven’t got that recording process down but it’s okay <laugh>, there’s always things to like learn and practice and I’m still having fun doing it, which is the important part.
How about a little more music? Here’s Creevey Crisis with their “The Flight.”
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That was Creevey Crisis and “The Flight,” Potter Ink singing “Under the Tree by the Lake,” and The Weirdos Are Out’s “Leaving Isn’t Going Home.”
And here’s Susannah again!
Thank you so much for talking with me today. It is always a joy to connect with you. Where can WZRD listeners find you and your music online?
Susannah: Self-Defensive Spellwork is on BandCamp under that name and I don’t think I’ve got accounts or anything else for that because it’s just music <laugh>. There’s a page in Your Wizard Rock Resource of course, which is most of my wizard rock output. And I’m also on the Wizard Rock Discord under Susannah. You can chat to me about the music I make or more commonly questions about Your Wizard Rock Resource.
And now, magical friends, here’s Self-Defensive Spellwork!
Susannah: This song is called “My Joy” and I wrote it for the Summer of Fun compilation last year and it was a lot of fun to write and I really enjoyed recording it and coming up with the lyrics and I just think it’s a really fun song.
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